Wednesday, May 30, 2007

How blogging affects the academic ecosystem

2007.05.18 20:57:38 ThomasLev joined the room.
2007.05.18 20:57:50 DennisOl: Here's our presenter!
2007.05.18 20:57:51 ThomasLev: Hello all
2007.05.18 20:57:53 NinaTL joined the room.
2007.05.18 20:57:57 DennisOl: Hi, Tom.
2007.05.18 20:58:01 ThomasLev: Hi Dennis! Hi Nina!
2007.05.18 20:58:10 NinaTL: I just popped into the WiZ room to let them know we are waiting here.
2007.05.18 20:58:19 NinaTL: Tom! Welcome!
2007.05.18 20:58:27 NinaTL: WiA*
2007.05.18 20:58:29 ThomasLev: WiZ?
2007.05.18 20:58:43 NinaTL: Is this where you will do your talk on blogs, or in WiA?
2007.05.18 20:58:55 ThomasLev: I was planning to do it here- but I could change
2007.05.18 20:59:17 NinaTL: Let me tell Monica and Carole you are here then. Or do you want to go there?
2007.05.18 20:59:17 ThomasLev: How many are over in WiA?
2007.05.18 20:59:22 NinaTL: Just 2.
2007.05.18 20:59:34 ThomasLev: Let's stay & I'll wait a minute
2007.05.18 20:59:39 NinaTL: I'll go and fetch them if you like.
2007.05.18 20:59:44 ThomasLev: thanks!
2007.05.18 20:59:49 NinaTL left the room.
2007.05.18 20:59:59 MizmercGst1 joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:00:16 MizmercGst1: Where to now for WiOAC
2007.05.18 21:00:24 ThomasLev: Hello & welcome to the WiOAC presentation
2007.05.18 21:00:26 DennisOl: This is the place.
2007.05.18 21:00:26 ThomasLev: you're here
2007.05.18 21:00:36 MizmercGst1: Well, that wasn't too bad...
2007.05.18 21:00:38 ThomasLev: We have some people coming over
2007.05.18 21:00:45 MizmercGst1: okay
2007.05.18 21:01:02 MizmercGst1: any audio?
2007.05.18 21:01:11 DennisOl: Not here.
2007.05.18 21:01:11 ThomasLev: no audio, no pictures
2007.05.18 21:01:12 MonicaV joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:01:14 ThomasLev: sorry
2007.05.18 21:01:15 CaroleMc joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:01:22 ThomasLev: I'm still kind of low tech that way
2007.05.18 21:01:23 DennisOl: Olá, Mônica.
2007.05.18 21:01:26 ThomasLev: Hi Carole
2007.05.18 21:01:27 CaroleMc: Hello Tom, everyone
2007.05.18 21:01:29 ThomasLev: Hi Monica
2007.05.18 21:01:29 MonicaV: Oi Dennis!
2007.05.18 21:01:35 ThomasLev: Thanks to Tapped In
2007.05.18 21:01:36 DennisOl: Tudo bem?
2007.05.18 21:01:37 MonicaV: Hi everyone! Hi Thomas
2007.05.18 21:01:48 MizmercGst1: text chat, this is positivly medival
2007.05.18 21:01:51 ThomasLev: WiAOC- it's great!
2007.05.18 21:01:52 MonicaV: Tudo ótimo, Dennis... But it's 1 a.m. here...
2007.05.18 21:02:01 ThomasLev: bear with me
2007.05.18 21:02:08 DennisOl: Oy! 1 AM?!
2007.05.18 21:02:09 CaroleMc: 2.00 pm here in Victoria, Australia
2007.05.18 21:02:14 MonicaV: Yes...
2007.05.18 21:02:17 MizmercGst1: don't worry, I touch type fast, I'll live
2007.05.18 21:02:19 ThomasLev: it's 11 pm here in Illinois
2007.05.18 21:02:20 DennisOl: 9:00 PM in Phoenix.
2007.05.18 21:02:30 MizmercGst1: and same in Sacratomato
2007.05.18 21:02:39 DennisOl: I'll be back in a few minutes . . . .
2007.05.18 21:02:47 CaroleMc: we've had glorious rain here - much needed in our drought stricken rural areas
2007.05.18 21:02:51 MrsdurfGst4 joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:02:56 MizmercGst1: Hi Lisa
2007.05.18 21:02:59 NinaTL joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:03:01 ThomasLev: Hello all!
2007.05.18 21:03:03 MizmercGst1: Hi Nina
2007.05.18 21:03:04 ThomasLev: Thanks Nina
2007.05.18 21:03:09 NinaTL: My pleasure!
2007.05.18 21:03:14 MrsdurfGst4: am i in tyhe correct place?
2007.05.18 21:03:23 ThomasLev: This is it-
2007.05.18 21:03:28 ThomasLev: you
2007.05.18 21:03:31 NinaTL: As a volunteer here yesterday and today I did not have any opportunity before now to actually be of service :-)
2007.05.18 21:03:32 ThomasLev: are here!
2007.05.18 21:03:34 MrsdurfGst4: ok...cog=ffee and brb
2007.05.18 21:03:51 ThomasLev: just got my coffee- just put kids to bed
2007.05.18 21:03:58 ThomasLev: have my notes & ready to go
2007.05.18 21:04:07 NinaTL: Tom, why did you select this hour to present? I might fall asleep in the middle
2007.05.18 21:04:12 ThomasLev: I've been doing research on academics who blog & pay the price
2007.05.18 21:04:19 CaroleMc: I've been reading your Blog on Blogging, Tom
2007.05.18 21:04:27 ThomasLev: less interference here- I have very young children
2007.05.18 21:04:36 MrsdurfGst4: ok, audio?
2007.05.18 21:04:39 NinaTL: Please share the url of your blog, Tom
2007.05.18 21:04:41 DennisOl: Good choice, Tom.
2007.05.18 21:04:42 ThomasLev: This is your Brain: This is your brain on weblogs
2007.05.18 21:04:46 DennisOl: No audio.
2007.05.18 21:04:49 NinaTL: no audio here
2007.05.18 21:04:51 MizmercGst1: I was looking at it before this Tom
2007.05.18 21:04:53 ThomasLev:
2007.05.18 21:05:00 ThomasLev: My own is here:
2007.05.18 21:05:06 ThomasLev:
2007.05.18 21:05:13 ThomasLev: this presentation is here:
2007.05.18 21:05:26 ThomasLev:
2007.05.18 21:05:27 MizmercGst1: And I thought it was interesting that one case, Daniel Drezner, is now tenured.
2007.05.18 21:05:27 MonicaV: I had a quick look too, but I'll have to go back to check the posts and links...
2007.05.18 21:05:54 ThomasLev: His fame eclipsed his misfortune
2007.05.18 21:06:16 CaroleMc: I'm really interested in the notion of 'transparency' in the blogosphere
2007.05.18 21:06:35 MizmercGst1: Juan Cole still hanging in the wind?
2007.05.18 21:06:35 NinaTL: Whose is the first blog?
2007.05.18 21:06:43 ThomasLev: He's still at Michigan
2007.05.18 21:06:45 DennisOl: I also gave it a quick read, but will spend more time on it later.
2007.05.18 21:06:49 MrsdurfGst4: privacy vs. transparency
2007.05.18 21:06:59 ThomasLev: Privacy is losing
2007.05.18 21:07:10 ThomasLev: I don't know whose was first, Nina
2007.05.18 21:07:11 MrsdurfGst4: indeed it is
2007.05.18 21:07:21 MizmercGst1: Well, what is private when you blog?
2007.05.18 21:07:21 DennisOl: I have to leave again. Sorry.
2007.05.18 21:07:23 MrsdurfGst4: like the digital immigrants
2007.05.18 21:07:25 NinaTL: This is your brain on weblogs
2007.05.18 21:07:29 NinaTL: Whose is that?
2007.05.18 21:07:31 GwenC joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:07:35 CaroleMc: blogging transparently is a growing trend globally
2007.05.18 21:07:35 MrsdurfGst4: all things (and us) grow old
2007.05.18 21:07:46 ThomasLev: There are a number of anonymous ones- but nothing is truly anonymous either
2007.05.18 21:07:49 NinaTL: Hi, Gwen, are you here for Tom's presentation?
2007.05.18 21:07:54 ThomasLev: Hi Gwen
2007.05.18 21:08:17 ThomasLev: What I'm saying is that transparency is a worldwide phenomenon- in gov't, etc
2007.05.18 21:08:17 GwenC: Yes I am. I had to brew myself a strong cup of coffee. now I'm ready
2007.05.18 21:08:27 MizmercGst1: I started anonymously...
2007.05.18 21:08:33 ThomasLev: it's a response by people to new conditions
2007.05.18 21:08:38 ThomasLev: and new necessity maybe
2007.05.18 21:08:42 MizmercGst1: I think you've got a point about transparency...
2007.05.18 21:08:44 CaroleMc: having a blog these days is just as practical as having a CV
2007.05.18 21:08:45 MrsdurfGst4: in an age where it takes literally seconds to find one on the web, what is the point?
2007.05.18 21:08:57 MizmercGst1: But what to put on teh blog carole?
2007.05.18 21:09:15 CaroleMc: yes selective blogging in several blogs is what I prefer
2007.05.18 21:09:17 MizmercGst1: I'm job hunting (elementary teacher), and I wonder if I should have muzzled myself the last few months
2007.05.18 21:09:23 NinaTL: I have about seven blogs :-)
2007.05.18 21:09:36 ThomasLev: Or the last few years- it all sticks around
2007.05.18 21:09:38 MrsdurfGst4: muzzled?
2007.05.18 21:09:41 NinaTL: Most of them inactive
2007.05.18 21:09:44 MonicaV: Seven? All active, Nina?
2007.05.18 21:09:49 MrsdurfGst4: are you cattle?
2007.05.18 21:09:52 MizmercGst1: I haven't blogged longer than say, December
2007.05.18 21:09:57 ThomasLev: I have about ten-
2007.05.18 21:10:02 ThomasLev: active
2007.05.18 21:10:04 NinaTL: Class blogs stop when the class is over
2007.05.18 21:10:08 MonicaV: Wow..
2007.05.18 21:10:13 NinaTL: Four of those
2007.05.18 21:10:16 ThomasLev: I recycle those, & don't count them
2007.05.18 21:10:18 CaroleMc: blog 1 for collaborative team reflective practice; blog 2 for mentoring and coaching online; blog 3 for digital storytelling - these are my most active blogs
2007.05.18 21:10:28 MizmercGst1: I have only about 4, but I teach in self-contained.
2007.05.18 21:10:30 ThomasLev: sounds good!
2007.05.18 21:10:30 NinaTL: One reading blog--active when I have time to read (i.e. not recently)
2007.05.18 21:10:37 ThomasLev: I've been organizing notes on blogs too
2007.05.18 21:10:46 ThomasLev: putting blogrolls on them
2007.05.18 21:10:48 NinaTL: I like Carole's clearly defined blogs
2007.05.18 21:10:49 MrsdurfGst4: my kids are begging to have blogs continue past the school year
2007.05.18 21:10:51 MonicaV: Yes, I've been doing that too...
2007.05.18 21:10:55 NinaTL: I do that in wikis
2007.05.18 21:11:00 MonicaV: ... saving my notes on blogs, that is.
2007.05.18 21:11:08 NinaTL: saving notes
2007.05.18 21:11:11 MizmercGst1: Thomas, I think back though to a vignette in What Color is your parachute.
2007.05.18 21:11:21 ThomasLev: tell about it!
2007.05.18 21:11:22 CaroleMc: I like that strategy o fyours Tom - notes that you can send folks to read. I use a similar process with my collection of wikis too.
2007.05.18 21:11:26 MizmercGst1: And the guy talks about sending out a bright red resume...
2007.05.18 21:11:49 NinaTL: What sort of response did he get?
2007.05.18 21:11:55 MizmercGst1: And that is the wrong color, but he wants to stand out to the place that will be looking for a red resume.
2007.05.18 21:12:08 ThomasLev: I sometimes feel like blogs are gardens full of flowers
2007.05.18 21:12:12 NinaTL: Is there such a place?
2007.05.18 21:12:15 CaroleMc: Nina, I have an orderly brain and I like to keep things in separate compartments - both inbrain and blogs :-)
2007.05.18 21:12:17 ThomasLev: they need to be weeded constantly
2007.05.18 21:12:23 NinaTL: me too Carole
2007.05.18 21:12:24 MizmercGst1: So I may express opinions on my blog, but I want to be somewhere where I can express well stated opionos.
2007.05.18 21:12:37 MizmercGst1: So I should go back thomas and take out stuff?\
2007.05.18 21:12:46 NinaTL: Tom, shuld we settle down and listen to what you've prepared?
2007.05.18 21:12:46 MizmercGst1: That doesn't "age" as well?
2007.05.18 21:12:49 ThomasLev: if you're looking for a job, maybe
2007.05.18 21:12:58 MizmercGst1: Sorry yes...
2007.05.18 21:13:11 CaroleMc: I use my blogs as part of my 'reflective practice' and enable my mentees to see that development - so no I don't weed often.
2007.05.18 21:13:12 MrsdurfGst4: the beauty of a blog is its permanence
2007.05.18 21:13:17 ThomasLev: Only your enemies will read the whole thing...
2007.05.18 21:13:30 GwenC: so true
2007.05.18 21:13:31 ThomasLev: it's a deceptive thing
2007.05.18 21:13:42 ThomasLev: they appear temporary but they stick around forever
2007.05.18 21:13:45 MrsdurfGst4: what country are you from Thomasx?\
2007.05.18 21:13:48 ThomasLev: USA
2007.05.18 21:14:00 ThomasLev: Illinois
2007.05.18 21:14:05 SaadiyahD joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:14:05 MrsdurfGst4: so why did you choose tappedin?
2007.05.18 21:14:19 ThomasLev: Actually I'm comfortable with it, & very short of time
2007.05.18 21:14:21 MrsdurfGst4: why not elluminate?
2007.05.18 21:14:22 NinaTL: Hi, Saadiyah
2007.05.18 21:14:33 ThomasLev: we webheads are hear every Sun. am (IL time)
2007.05.18 21:14:41 ThomasLev: I like elluminate
2007.05.18 21:14:41 DougSy joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:14:43 NinaTL: The virtual rooms required expertise or coaching
2007.05.18 21:14:45 AidenY joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:14:45 NinaTL: Hi DOug
2007.05.18 21:14:49 NinaTL: Hi Aiden
2007.05.18 21:14:51 MrsdurfGst4: ah, a webby!
2007.05.18 21:14:52 AidenY waves to all
2007.05.18 21:14:55 ThomasLev: but don't understand it as well
2007.05.18 21:15:01 DougSy: HI Nina, and all
2007.05.18 21:15:13 MizmercGst1: Thomas on transparency...
2007.05.18 21:15:16 ThomasLev: again I apologize for the Stone Age medium
2007.05.18 21:15:17 JoseMR: Is there any audio
2007.05.18 21:15:17 ThomasLev: ok
2007.05.18 21:15:20 JeffC: Andy Carvin posted to wwwedu@yahoogroups today. He was talking about creating a wiki to post comments regarding the upcoming revamping of the NCLB legislation. So far only myself and one other have posted to his blog:
2007.05.18 21:15:20 CaroleMc: Tapped In chats are nice and easy to manage - I've been visiting here for a few years now
2007.05.18 21:15:30 GwenC: About Permanency, I think the permanency needs to be stressed to students -in blogs and wikis. It's scary to google your name and get homework from a year ago come up
2007.05.18 21:15:36 MrsdurfGst4: I miss the audio...turning into a citizen
2007.05.18 21:15:38 ThomasLev: no audio, sorry
2007.05.18 21:15:50 NinaTL: I love Tapped In--but it's harder to herd the cats
2007.05.18 21:15:54 NinaTL listens to Tom
2007.05.18 21:15:54 ThomasLev: Thanks Jeff
2007.05.18 21:15:54 JoseMR: I am streaming for worldbridges. Now I see
2007.05.18 21:15:59 CaroleMc: LOL Gwen - that is scary but interesting.
2007.05.18 21:16:01 JeffC: Now... when you've got a top educator asking for comments about pathetic legislation (you should read what they say about what "tech standards" should be... you know you've got problems.
2007.05.18 21:16:10 MizmercGst1: I didn't realize how much of class was "visiable" on blog.
2007.05.18 21:16:13 DougSy: lol Nina, re cats
2007.05.18 21:16:16 MrsdurfGst4: yes, steve dembo has a presentation about online resumes
2007.05.18 21:16:27 JeffC: btw... I recommend everyone here click "Actions-- Detach"
2007.05.18 21:16:29 ThomasLev: I agree and have been doing that more
2007.05.18 21:16:40 MizmercGst1: much nicer.
2007.05.18 21:16:42 JeffC: and detach your chat box and perhaps make the text larger as well.
2007.05.18 21:16:46 DougSy: excellent tip Jeff, I'd forgotten
2007.05.18 21:16:53 MizmercGst1: This is feeling a litlte like that video on if a class were held in chat...
2007.05.18 21:16:57 GwenC: homework and introductions(meant for that class) are visible
2007.05.18 21:16:58 JeffC: Well... I have been on Helpdesk here for about 10 years.
2007.05.18 21:17:16 MrsdurfGst4: i did...bad eyes
2007.05.18 21:17:19 JeffC: Miz... if you registered... you could create your own K-12 class here ;-)
2007.05.18 21:17:29 MizmercGst1: My kids couldn't go...
2007.05.18 21:17:35 ThomasLev: I see students & teachers as on an inevitable path toward transparency
2007.05.18 21:17:40 NinaTL: So Tom, how has blogging changed the academic ecosystem?
2007.05.18 21:17:52 ThomasLev: we're not hiding anything, are we?
2007.05.18 21:17:53 KathrynFB joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:17:56 MizmercGst1: I asked how many had computers, and it was about 2/3rds. How many had a working one with internet, only about 1/3
2007.05.18 21:17:57 AidenY: Thomas, in my Listening/speaking class in Taiwan, we're focusing on global warming, our project is 'virtual movement against global warming' and we're using blogs and other cmc tools to raise awareness among asian students
2007.05.18 21:18:09 GwenC: everyone is hiding SOMETHING
2007.05.18 21:18:12 MrsdurfGst4: from whom are we hiding, Kathy would ask?
2007.05.18 21:18:19 ThomasLev: I think global warming is a good example
2007.05.18 21:18:22 AidenY: I'm very interesting in what you're going to share with us today
2007.05.18 21:18:26 AidenY: interested
2007.05.18 21:18:28 ThomasLev: the world needs to organize FAST
2007.05.18 21:18:39 KathrynFB: sorry, just came into the room, trying to get the gist of the conversation,
2007.05.18 21:18:40 ThomasLev: and needs to root out people who are hiding something
2007.05.18 21:18:42 KathrynFB: Hi
2007.05.18 21:18:48 ThomasLev: Hi Kathryn!
2007.05.18 21:18:52 NinaTL: Hi Kathryn
2007.05.18 21:18:56 CaroleMc: Tom, do you think blogging will make academics more visible and their pedagogy more transparent?
2007.05.18 21:19:00 KathrynFB: Hi Thomas and Nina
2007.05.18 21:19:02 ThomasLev: I'm talking about transparency
2007.05.18 21:19:03 NinaTL: Welcome to Tapped In and WiZOC
2007.05.18 21:19:04 ThomasLev: yes
2007.05.18 21:19:07 NinaTL: WiAOC
2007.05.18 21:19:10 AidenY listens to Thomas
2007.05.18 21:19:11 KathrynFB: thanks
2007.05.18 21:19:13 SaadiyahD left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:19:17 GwenC: by transparency , you mean honesty?
2007.05.18 21:19:22 ThomasLev: people who put stuff online put back pressure on people who don't
2007.05.18 21:19:24 ThomasLev: yes
2007.05.18 21:19:26 JeffC: I don't see things transparent... indeed... I see things as amazingly atavistic. You can't talk seriously about blogs when half the districts in this country filter them.
2007.05.18 21:19:37 JeffC: It took me three years to get Tapped In unfiltered in my local district.
2007.05.18 21:19:40 MizmercGst1: So is the answer less or more transparency...
2007.05.18 21:19:44 ThomasLev: letting people see what you're doing
2007.05.18 21:19:53 ThomasLev: I think people see through the barriers
2007.05.18 21:19:56 MizmercGst1: You warn me about what I'm putting up for my job hunt...
2007.05.18 21:20:12 ThomasLev: true
2007.05.18 21:20:13 MizmercGst1: But if we are all transparent, then the little things I put up won't stand out.
2007.05.18 21:20:22 CaroleMc: I agree with that - letting them see what you're doing - is a learning journey revealed and new knowledge is captured from that.
2007.05.18 21:20:24 GwenC: but in todays culture where everyone wants to sell their knowledge, ithat isn't gogn agains the currents
2007.05.18 21:20:28 MizmercGst1: NOW they do, cause I'm one of the few teachers they can vet online.
2007.05.18 21:20:32 NinaTL: Well, we all need to understand that when we write, there is an audience.
2007.05.18 21:20:44 NinaTL: We write differently for different audiences.
2007.05.18 21:20:46 MizmercGst1: But when we all wear miniskirts, they can't haul us in for breaking the dress code.
2007.05.18 21:21:02 NinaTL: Only trouble is, with a blog you can't choose your audience--they choose you
2007.05.18 21:21:06 ThomasLev: In one sense if every applicant is good they'll take the one they know the best
2007.05.18 21:21:08 MizmercGst1: Yeah, that is true nina, but for now, andyone talking is sticking out.
2007.05.18 21:21:12 MrsdurfGst4: i am not wearing a mini skirt!
2007.05.18 21:21:20 MizmercGst1: It was an analogy.
2007.05.18 21:21:28 ThomasLev: not to mention one that knows the technology
2007.05.18 21:21:39 MrsdurfGst4: i would hope so - i would look terrible
2007.05.18 21:21:45 MizmercGst1: I'm pretty sure my current admin has no idea about my reflection blog.
2007.05.18 21:21:54 MizmercGst1: Or blogs in general.
2007.05.18 21:21:57 MrsdurfGst4: oh mine does
2007.05.18 21:22:02 NinaTL: I'm just saying we need to be aware that when we blog, anyone might read it: our students, our potential employers, our parents, our colleagues, total strangers...
2007.05.18 21:22:13 MrsdurfGst4: his daughter is in my class
2007.05.18 21:22:14 CaroleMc: it is part of the turtle syndrome - sticking your neck out (blogging transparently)
2007.05.18 21:22:29 NinaTL: If our students blog, we need to make sure they understand that also
2007.05.18 21:22:39 AidenY: I like that one, Carole :-)
2007.05.18 21:22:39 ThomasLev: I agree with that
2007.05.18 21:22:44 GwenC: can't blogs be used as much to expose yourself as a smokescreen? (Sorry, playing devils advocate a bit)
2007.05.18 21:22:48 MrsdurfGst4: i have never been good a diplomacy
2007.05.18 21:23:03 CaroleMc: the turtle is clever too - cos he/she knows when it is time to pull his head in
2007.05.18 21:23:04 MrsdurfGst4: they could
2007.05.18 21:23:05 MizmercGst1: But Thomas, isn't it an issue of groups too?
2007.05.18 21:23:15 ThomasLev: I think people see through fakeness
2007.05.18 21:23:17 MizmercGst1: If we all get more transparent, then you don't stick out...
2007.05.18 21:23:37 ThomasLev: Actually as we all get more transparent the people who are silent stick out
2007.05.18 21:23:41 MizmercGst1: But for now, only some of us are, and we're in the spot light.
2007.05.18 21:23:46 MrsdurfGst4: i stick out in any crowd
2007.05.18 21:23:47 MizmercGst1: Yes, exactly!
2007.05.18 21:23:50 ThomasLev: like people who don't have phones
2007.05.18 21:23:57 CaroleMc: here in my 'neck' of the woods most of my colleagues know of me by my online writing long before they meet me
2007.05.18 21:24:04 MrsdurfGst4: i don't have a phone
2007.05.18 21:24:19 MrsdurfGst4: or a tv
2007.05.18 21:24:20 MizmercGst1: My online world and my professional world are so seperate in some ways now.
2007.05.18 21:24:23 NinaTL: Where is your neck of the woods, Carole?
2007.05.18 21:24:31 CaroleMc: Victoria, Australia
2007.05.18 21:24:33 MizmercGst1: I feel like I don't have transparency in myself sometimes...
2007.05.18 21:24:35 JimTGst5 joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:24:36 NinaTL: Alice, that IS unusual!
2007.05.18 21:24:39 ThomasLev: A related point that I'm working on is that the relationship of writing to speaking has changed
2007.05.18 21:24:43 NinaTL: Hi, Jim, welcome
2007.05.18 21:24:56 ThomasLev: though that's really a different presentation
2007.05.18 21:24:57 NinaTL: In what sense, Tom?
2007.05.18 21:24:59 CaroleMc: yes Tom, listening, curious to hear more on that
2007.05.18 21:25:02 MizmercGst1: Well, what level are we all teaching at?
2007.05.18 21:25:18 MrsdurfGst4: transparency in would that work?
2007.05.18 21:25:21 JeffC: the lowest common demoninator of high stakest testing.
2007.05.18 21:25:24 NinaTL thinks she already asked Carole that today and apologizes for her memory lapse
2007.05.18 21:25:30 ThomasLev: if people meet each other through writing now (chat)
2007.05.18 21:25:33 MizmercGst1: Jeff, I'm at a PI school, so I know...
2007.05.18 21:25:41 ThomasLev: and there are chat dialects, etc.
2007.05.18 21:25:46 DennisOl left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:25:59 ThomasLev: then writing becomes more important and more influential
2007.05.18 21:26:03 ThomasLev: also more casual
2007.05.18 21:26:15 ThomasLev: and we only use speaking for limited things
2007.05.18 21:26:17 NinaTL: My students are very casual about their writing when they blog
2007.05.18 21:26:17 JeffC: speaking of chat... what percentage of schools have speech to text installed or use it for their K-6 students?
2007.05.18 21:26:27 CaroleMc: Tom, this line of thought is of great interest to me. I've long advocated the need for more teachers to learn the art of 'writing' before they blog
2007.05.18 21:26:28 NinaTL: no idea, Jeff
2007.05.18 21:26:39 JeffC: i'd say probably less than 3%.
2007.05.18 21:26:47 MizmercGst1: I don't
2007.05.18 21:26:49 JeffC: and yet... as we all know... kids don't type well...
2007.05.18 21:26:53 NinaTL: for special needs students?
2007.05.18 21:27:05 MizmercGst1: Well, they acutally type at same rate they write...
2007.05.18 21:27:06 JeffC: and if we want them to write... they need to discover their own voice... so why not let them talk to the computer?
2007.05.18 21:27:12 MizmercGst1: I think there was a post on 2cents about that
2007.05.18 21:27:21 JeffC: they type at maybe 5 words a minute... they talk at least 100.
2007.05.18 21:27:30 CaroleMc: Authentic voice in a blog is an important issue - it empowers the blogger.
2007.05.18 21:27:35 MizmercGst1: No, they type at like 20, and write at 20.
2007.05.18 21:27:38 ThomasLev: My son types 87
2007.05.18 21:27:41 MizmercGst1: So they type as they write.
2007.05.18 21:27:41 ThomasLev: but it's all chat
2007.05.18 21:27:49 MizmercGst1: No, typing...
2007.05.18 21:27:52 JeffC: so... the system that tells them to type gets them to stifle their thought process... 2nd graders do *not* type 20 wpm.
2007.05.18 21:27:53 ThomasLev: he has his own language
2007.05.18 21:28:03 MizmercGst1: They also write less than 20 wpm
2007.05.18 21:28:06 JeffC: not to mention encompassing various learning styles...
2007.05.18 21:28:12 JeffC: yes... but they can all *talk* faster.
2007.05.18 21:28:15 MizmercGst1: I'll get the link to the 2cents piece.
2007.05.18 21:28:18 MizmercGst1: Yeah, true.
2007.05.18 21:28:20 GwenC: speaking and writing being two different langauges practically, I don't know if I would encourage a speach to text type program. Am I missing the point ?
2007.05.18 21:28:32 MizmercGst1: Well, that's what we're doing now.
2007.05.18 21:28:35 JeffC: and... the tech is here that would allow them to really blossom... it's integrated into XP... but virtually no one uses it.
2007.05.18 21:28:48 NinaTL: Really?
2007.05.18 21:28:53 CaroleMc: voice chat tools are much more prevalent here in Aussie elearning because of the needs of different learners (those who are keyboard challenged for instance)
2007.05.18 21:28:54 NinaTL: I have XP
2007.05.18 21:29:00 JeffC: when we get students to write... we get them to slow down their thinking... which is both good and bad.
2007.05.18 21:29:12 NinaTL: My daughter is "keyboard challenged"
2007.05.18 21:29:13 JeffC: we *never* let them all talk at once in class... yet... with headsets and mikes... they could.
2007.05.18 21:29:17 ThomasLev: I never thought of that, Jeff
2007.05.18 21:29:24 NinaTL: If she could do speech to text it would be very helpful
2007.05.18 21:29:24 JeffC: *all* K-6 students are keyboard challenged.
2007.05.18 21:29:25 DougSy: the problem with XP voice recognition is the time it takes to "teach" the computer
2007.05.18 21:29:46 MizmercGst1: Here:
2007.05.18 21:29:49 JeffC: of course it does Doug... but if you start at the beginning of the year... give them 15 minutes to get it started... it improves.
2007.05.18 21:29:53 DougSy: I've always found I've had to edit extensively (so haven't "stuck with it")
2007.05.18 21:29:59 ThomasLev: thanks for the link!
2007.05.18 21:30:00 GwenC: keyboard and written language itself - you´re right
2007.05.18 21:30:02 JeffC: how much time do kids waste trying to type in stuff on the keyboard?
2007.05.18 21:30:04 MizmercGst1: NP
2007.05.18 21:30:10 DougSy: point well taken
2007.05.18 21:30:16 MizmercGst1: How much time do they waste with pencil and paper?
2007.05.18 21:30:22 ThomasLev: by the way members in TI get the transcript which I will forward to anyone if you write me at
2007.05.18 21:30:22 NinaTL: Mine: a lot
2007.05.18 21:30:23 JeffC: and... how many thoughts are lost in the frustration?
2007.05.18 21:30:38 CaroleMc: So Tom, what do you suggest for those keen to explore blogging, how to prepare, start, maintain and update their blogs?
2007.05.18 21:30:40 DougSy: re time, we've talked about how voice (spoken) makes the learner more concious of composition
2007.05.18 21:30:49 DougSy: especially for 'casts
2007.05.18 21:30:58 MizmercGst1: Really, I wouldn't think so?
2007.05.18 21:30:59 DougSy: be they "pod" or "web"
2007.05.18 21:31:12 DougSy: they want to "make it sound right"
2007.05.18 21:31:16 ThomasLev: First, keep in mind it's like dressing up- wear what you want everyone to see
2007.05.18 21:31:32 ThomasLev: because they're always watching
2007.05.18 21:31:33 MizmercGst1: But is that phrase, and sentence composition, or overall?
2007.05.18 21:31:39 MizmercGst1: Overall structure.
2007.05.18 21:31:41 JeffC: i'm a firm believer in text... and when people podcast, i'd really like to see textural transcripts available as well. why? because for one, there's no way on earth i'm going to sit and listen to a 2 hour podcast, when i can scan and search it if it's in text version in about 5 minutes.
2007.05.18 21:31:50 GwenC: but wihtout the interface that spoken inchange provides, the written word many times is not comprehensible. Are you talking about an interchange.. not properly a blog?
2007.05.18 21:32:04 MizmercGst1: I listen to podcasts without text ALL the time...
2007.05.18 21:32:11 MizmercGst1: ANd usually multitask through them.
2007.05.18 21:32:16 NinaTL: I agree, Jeff. I don't listen to a lot of podcasts because of the time factor
2007.05.18 21:32:19 MizmercGst1: But I'm an N of one
2007.05.18 21:32:24 ThomasLev: people scan a lot mroe
2007.05.18 21:32:29 ThomasLev: they stop when they want
2007.05.18 21:32:34 ThomasLev: they need & love control
2007.05.18 21:32:45 MizmercGst1: That's how I first heard of Drezner, lol
2007.05.18 21:32:47 NinaTL: We are all control freaks
2007.05.18 21:32:49 MizmercGst1: Bloggingheads.
2007.05.18 21:32:54 JeffC: well... that's one approach... but again... real time listening... uh... yeah... multitasking through it? well... again... you will get through a tenth of the material if you have a 1 to 1 correspondence in going through audio archives.
2007.05.18 21:32:57 ThomasLev: they keep their finger on the backbutton
2007.05.18 21:33:00 DougSy: that's what the ffwd button on the media player is for "scanning" podcasts ;)
2007.05.18 21:33:05 MizmercGst1: Well, it's letting go that lets things happen
2007.05.18 21:33:06 MrsdurfGst4 left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:33:11 CaroleMc: I like that point Tom - step 1 - select your preferred blogging style of writing - Step 2?
2007.05.18 21:33:19 MizmercGst1: Jeff, I'm willing to live with it.
2007.05.18 21:33:41 WonderfGst8 joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:33:48 MizmercGst1: I re-listen sometimes.
2007.05.18 21:33:52 ThomasLev: I do separate styles into different blogs
2007.05.18 21:34:03 ThomasLev: on an informal one I mark it- every sentence
2007.05.18 21:34:23 ThomasLev: no caps
2007.05.18 21:34:29 ThomasLev: I'm not sure that's good advice
2007.05.18 21:34:34 ThomasLev: but it helps me
2007.05.18 21:34:52 ThomasLev: actually the reason I'm doing this is that I love blogging- it's done a lot for me
2007.05.18 21:34:55 MizmercGst1: My style on my class blog is different than my reflection blog, but I have a voice that comes through both of those. And I use CAPS sometimes to make a point
2007.05.18 21:35:02 CaroleMc: interesting that - its a less formal style that is more like conversation that ebbs and flows
2007.05.18 21:35:12 JeffC: I like the idea of podcasts... as well as desktop sharing, etc... but in this age of information overload... yeah... if you want to slow yourself down online... listen to podcast archives... but again, as with this conference... I wish there were textural transcripts available of all the audio presentations.
2007.05.18 21:35:17 ThomasLev: and I wouldn't want to lose it- or lose other things that are important to me
2007.05.18 21:35:18 MizmercGst1: not on class blog. I'm breaking students of the ALL CAPS HABIT (arghhh)
2007.05.18 21:35:25 JoseMR: I keep both a reflection and classroom blog
2007.05.18 21:35:27 NinaTL: I wouldn't want to model no caps for my students. They are case-challenged as it is
2007.05.18 21:35:38 MizmercGst1: ditto nina
2007.05.18 21:35:47 JoseMR: This is the case with 3rd graders also
2007.05.18 21:35:47 JeffC: just pry the CapsLock key off their keyboards!
2007.05.18 21:35:51 ThomasLev: students have to read very carefully to find my personal blog
2007.05.18 21:35:59 CaroleMc: hmm, i think there is merit in allowing different structure in a blog , as we do in an SMS text message
2007.05.18 21:35:59 MizmercGst1: It's just a couple girls,
2007.05.18 21:36:00 ThomasLev: they find lots of other stuff first
2007.05.18 21:36:00 PerryGst9 joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:36:10 ThomasLev: but they do, occasionally, find it
2007.05.18 21:36:12 JeffC: Hi Perry
2007.05.18 21:36:13 JoseMR: I go back edit comments for spelling and grammar
2007.05.18 21:36:16 MizmercGst1: so funny, like the same types that would "heart" their "i"
2007.05.18 21:36:17 JeffC: I'm on Helpdesk if you'd like assistance.
2007.05.18 21:36:19 PerryGst9: Hi jeff
2007.05.18 21:36:19 NinaTL: Hi, Perry
2007.05.18 21:36:30 PerryGst9: Hi Nina
2007.05.18 21:36:41 JeffC: Are you here for the WiA Conference or something else, Perry?
2007.05.18 21:36:49 MizmercGst1: Hoping Nina is not offended since she has an "i" in her name
2007.05.18 21:36:52 PerryGst9: For the conference
2007.05.18 21:36:55 JeffC: cool
2007.05.18 21:36:55 ThomasLev: Welcome to the WiAOC
2007.05.18 21:36:55 NinaTL: Perry is presenting at Alado in 20 minutes
2007.05.18 21:37:04 JeffC: excellent
2007.05.18 21:37:04 JoseMR: We are here for the conference
2007.05.18 21:37:11 NinaTL: I don't put hearts over the i in my name
2007.05.18 21:37:17 NinaTL: Actually too i's
2007.05.18 21:37:18 HelenA joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:37:18 ThomasLev: I am presenting - in my own clunky text-chat kind of way
2007.05.18 21:37:22 NinaTL: Nina and Liakos
2007.05.18 21:37:22 MizmercGst1: I thought so, but ya never know.
2007.05.18 21:37:24 ThomasLev: but I do have sites to peruse
2007.05.18 21:37:30 ThomasLev: and especially welcome comments
2007.05.18 21:37:30 MizmercGst1: okay,
2007.05.18 21:37:34 WonderfGst8 left the room.
2007.05.18 21:37:44 MizmercGst1: So thomas, I agree it's part of the general transparency movement.
2007.05.18 21:37:52 ThomasLev: ah, thanks!
2007.05.18 21:38:01 WonderfGst8 joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:38:01 MizmercGst1: And now it is in transition...
2007.05.18 21:38:21 MizmercGst1: so this means that the rules are being written, and some folks are road kill in that process...
2007.05.18 21:38:30 WonderfGst8 left the room.
2007.05.18 21:38:32 MizmercGst1: but as more folks, get more transparent...
2007.05.18 21:38:48 MizmercGst1: things will settle out and get real...
2007.05.18 21:38:55 MizmercGst1: Summary?
2007.05.18 21:38:56 ThomasLev: my sense is that traditionalists are in shock
2007.05.18 21:38:56 HelenA left the room.
2007.05.18 21:39:04 ThomasLev: but will fight back soon enough
2007.05.18 21:39:06 MizmercGst1: Also a side chat from Jeff on keyboarding
2007.05.18 21:39:07 NinaTL left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:39:07 NinaTL joined the room.
2007.05.18 21:39:11 DougSy: Thomas thanks for this--most of my synchronous online interaction as of late has been VoIP and I'd forgotten the power of text
2007.05.18 21:39:11 MizmercGst1: Ya think?
2007.05.18 21:39:19 GwenC: They will fight back... or adapt
2007.05.18 21:39:29 ThomasLev: well I'd like to know
2007.05.18 21:39:30 MizmercGst1: I think they will try to set up rules...
2007.05.18 21:39:34 CaroleMc: adapt or perish
2007.05.18 21:39:36 ThomasLev: that's possible
2007.05.18 21:39:36 JeffC: btw Mizmerc... members here automatically receive transcripts of their sessions here.
2007.05.18 21:39:51 MizmercGst1: Hey, I think he's pushing membership, lol
2007.05.18 21:39:54 KathrynFB left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:39:59 JeffC: I would recommend that any WiAOC conference participant register here... there are weekly meetings... yup.
2007.05.18 21:40:12 JeffC: It's free... ad free... and you haven't begun to see the possibilities of Tapped In! ;-)
2007.05.18 21:40:13 MizmercGst1: But that will not impress me, since I'm not text oriented. I'll consider anyway
2007.05.18 21:40:34 MizmercGst1: will they, and do they fight back?
2007.05.18 21:40:36 ThomasLev: webheads chats are great-
2007.05.18 21:40:38 JeffC: Well... you could always use text to speedch.
2007.05.18 21:40:42 JeffC: or even speech
2007.05.18 21:40:45 ThomasLev: but they're Sun am IL time
2007.05.18 21:40:45 MizmercGst1: there ya go!
2007.05.18 21:40:47 DougSy: lol
2007.05.18 21:40:54 NinaTL: I also come here for chats with my students and ex-students
2007.05.18 21:40:59 ThomasLev: I'm collecting stories
2007.05.18 21:41:00 JeffC: although i kinda like the word "speedch"
2007.05.18 21:41:10 ThomasLev: One way is just to characterize blogs as non-serious
2007.05.18 21:41:18 DougSy: that's conversion at a faster rate Jeff
2007.05.18 21:41:24 MizmercGst1: Well, I'm a lowly elementary teacher at a Program IMprovement school...
2007.05.18 21:41:27 NinaTL: Some blogs are very serious though
2007.05.18 21:41:28 ThomasLev: frame them as drivel
2007.05.18 21:41:28 JeffC: yup
2007.05.18 21:41:35 ThomasLev: oh I agree, absolutely
2007.05.18 21:41:38 MizmercGst1: My blog is DEAD serious...
2007.05.18 21:41:42 GwenC: Thomas, the transparency - openness mkes the whole academic areana more democratic as well as honest... non-serious? non-stuffy
2007.05.18 21:41:45 CaroleMc: the use of text conversation like this one is empowering - anyone 'speaks' at any time; it also engages with those who like the multi layering of conversations; the eyes are darting all over to draw the threads together - its fun
2007.05.18 21:41:46 JeffC: how would you like to have your students collaborate with other classes Miz?
2007.05.18 21:41:54 NinaTL: Several of mine are seriously dead.
2007.05.18 21:41:55 ThomasLev: I agree Gwen
2007.05.18 21:42:15 JeffC: again... for those who haven't done so yet... click the Actions menu in this frame and click Detach... maximize your chat window.
2007.05.18 21:42:22 JeffC: also Actions-- Larger Text (for us old folks).
2007.05.18 21:42:25 MizmercGst1: Jeff, lets see how this thread goes...
2007.05.18 21:42:38 MizmercGst1: Then I'll discuss collaborating...
2007.05.18 21:42:47 ThomasLev: Actions speak louder than words?
2007.05.18 21:42:53 JeffC: Well.. I'm into audio myself in a different way... I'm heading out to sing some karaoke in a few minutes.
2007.05.18 21:42:55 NinaTL: I recently discovered you can click on larger text again and again and it gets larger and larger each time
2007.05.18 21:43:01 JeffC: Rock and roll works better on a mike than in text.
2007.05.18 21:43:09 JeffC nods to Nina.
2007.05.18 21:43:18 GwenC: not if I'm on the Karoke
2007.05.18 21:43:23 MizmercGst1: Since I'm the most tech advanced at my site, I use reflection blog to share issues/triumphs, and it gets me to people who are at my level and can help.
2007.05.18 21:43:24 JeffC: That's particularly useful if you want to desktop share, Nina.
2007.05.18 21:43:25 NinaTL: Learn something new everyday!
2007.05.18 21:43:30 ThomasLev: karaoke kind of puts the two together, doesn't it?
2007.05.18 21:43:37 PerryGst9: With the larger font, I can now read what is going on :)
2007.05.18 21:43:45 JeffC: yup! I read it on the screen and sing it on the mike!
2007.05.18 21:43:51 NinaTL: Very useful, Perry! :-)
2007.05.18 21:44:13 JeffC: Since the text scrolls very fast here... and we're not using the top frame... it's a must.
2007.05.18 21:44:16 JoseMR left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:44:21 MizmercGst1: But, my kiddos are not at the stage where they will pick up my blog. Maybe in a few years, maybe next years class...
2007.05.18 21:44:38 ThomasLev: I would love to read some of these blogs people are referring to, if you don't mind flinging them into the arena
2007.05.18 21:44:43 JeffC: also... if you want to have a private conversation with someone... double click their name in the Here or Online tabs to the left to open a private chat box.
2007.05.18 21:44:53 ThomasLev: Here are a few of mine...
2007.05.18 21:44:57 MizmercGst1:
2007.05.18 21:45:01 NinaTL: is my reading blog
2007.05.18 21:45:02 MizmercGst1: class blog
2007.05.18 21:45:05 JeffC: if you put up a url, it's clickable... however... hold the Ctrl key down when clicking.
2007.05.18 21:45:17 ThomasLev: most recent student blog:
2007.05.18 21:45:17 JeffC: or accept popups from this site (best)... otherwise your popup blocker might log you out.
2007.05.18 21:45:23 MonicaV: I don't have a personal blog, but the class blog I have with my students is at
2007.05.18 21:45:27 MizmercGst1: okay, ctrl not working in firefox
2007.05.18 21:45:29 ThomasLev: professional:
2007.05.18 21:45:35 JeffC: are you on a Mac, Miz?
2007.05.18 21:45:40 MizmercGst1: nope
2007.05.18 21:45:40 ThomasLev: personal:
2007.05.18 21:45:45 NinaTL: is my first and sporadically continuing reflective blog on web tools
2007.05.18 21:45:48 MizmercGst1: just a cruddy xp laptop
2007.05.18 21:45:52 JeffC: what happened when you control + click?
2007.05.18 21:45:58 CaroleMc: is my blog for networking
2007.05.18 21:46:01 MizmercGst1: I will have to copy and paste later
2007.05.18 21:46:12 JeffC: Miz... Actions-- Send to Pasteboard
2007.05.18 21:46:19 NinaTL: Get Tom to send you the chatlog, Alice.
2007.05.18 21:46:22 DougSy: here's an "action research" blog project I'm involved with at OISE/UT
2007.05.18 21:46:28 JeffC: that's the only way you may copy/paste elsewhere... plus a way for you to get a transcript of this session.
2007.05.18 21:46:28 MizmercGst1: not a darn thing
2007.05.18 21:46:42 JeffC: are you sure it didn't open another window?
2007.05.18 21:46:44 ThomasLev: I'll send anyone the transcript if you write me at
2007.05.18 21:46:48 MizmercGst1: man, NOW I want a transcript, lol
2007.05.18 21:46:50 ThomasLev: nonmembers to
2007.05.18 21:46:53 ThomasLev: too
2007.05.18 21:47:05 NinaTL: Members will get their own.
2007.05.18 21:47:05 JeffC: charge them a dollar for it through Paypal, Thomas.
2007.05.18 21:47:06 MizmercGst1:
2007.05.18 21:47:14 NinaTL: lol
2007.05.18 21:47:16 ThomasLev: do you bloggers find that the process takes you in?
2007.05.18 21:47:22 MizmercGst1: YES!
2007.05.18 21:47:23 NinaTL: What do you mean?
2007.05.18 21:47:29 MizmercGst1: It always has with technology
2007.05.18 21:47:33 DougSy: it took me a while to find my "public voice"
2007.05.18 21:47:33 NinaTL: I get pretty obsessed
2007.05.18 21:47:42 ThomasLev: well, I want to keep talking to the public
2007.05.18 21:47:46 MizmercGst1: Back when I started html coding, I could lose a day doing a page
2007.05.18 21:47:47 ThomasLev: I think about it more & more
2007.05.18 21:47:48 DougSy: with text, and then again with audio
2007.05.18 21:47:55 GwenC: I feel wrapped up in it. Yes. Do you see the resistance to blogging as an attempt to control voices? or is that paranoic? Should it be an objective to instruct our students/collegues as to the transparency aspect and the strength of it? How?
2007.05.18 21:48:29 MizmercGst1: And I used to spend mucho time setting up an access database for my class the first year I taught. It'sb ecause I could control the technology. and it was so crazy that first year.
2007.05.18 21:48:45 ThomasLev: good questions, Gwen
2007.05.18 21:48:50 MizmercGst1: Yep
2007.05.18 21:48:53 NinaTL: When we blog with students I think we should relinquish some of that control.
2007.05.18 21:49:04 NinaTL: But sometimes students won't post if they don't have to.
2007.05.18 21:49:09 JeffC: I spent a month in Fortran class in 8th grade doing punch cards to print up a banner of my name.
2007.05.18 21:49:18 JeffC: Anyone else here want to go back to Univac?
2007.05.18 21:49:23 NinaTL: not me!
2007.05.18 21:49:32 MizmercGst1: I tried to find the string that connects why I blog on MY blog, with what I want my studetns to learn on their blog.
2007.05.18 21:49:51 MizmercGst1: NO! I did VMS abit on some legacy systems..
2007.05.18 21:50:05 MizmercGst1: and they still had punchcards the first time I took SPSS as a freshman
2007.05.18 21:50:07 ThomasLev: Actually one thing we do, that I think helps that Gwen's question, is that we have class blogs & personal blogs
2007.05.18 21:50:25 MizmercGst1: Yes, but there are things that connect both of them for me.
2007.05.18 21:50:26 NinaTL: I write much differently on a class blog
2007.05.18 21:50:28 ThomasLev: we invite students to delete their personal blogs if they want, after they graduate
2007.05.18 21:50:34 ThomasLev: ...though they never do
2007.05.18 21:50:35 CaroleMc: Nina, I am amazed at the type of blogs that learners, much younger than me, love to frequent - certainly more colourful than mine - maybe my blogs need a makeover to attract a different audience- :-)
2007.05.18 21:50:41 NinaTL: Anyone can delete a blog
2007.05.18 21:50:44 ThomasLev: actually occasionally they do
2007.05.18 21:50:56 MizmercGst1: Becasue thomas, once they're gone, you can't get tehm back!
2007.05.18 21:51:08 MizmercGst1: Have you ever lost track of somethign that was digital?
2007.05.18 21:51:15 MizmercGst1: Photos, a paper?
2007.05.18 21:51:17 MizmercGst1: I HATE it.
2007.05.18 21:51:20 ThomasLev: I've lost track of lots of stuff
2007.05.18 21:51:22 ThomasLev: I do too
2007.05.18 21:51:30 ThomasLev: it's my own fault, for the most part
2007.05.18 21:51:35 MonicaV left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 21:51:38 MizmercGst1: And I think maybe they have at some point, and fear losing those memories, and that time.
2007.05.18 21:51:46 GwenC: Is it possible to download a blog in it´s entire form?
2007.05.18 21:51:47 NinaTL: There's a lot of trash floating around in cyberspace... I understand it never really goes away
2007.05.18 21:51:54 NinaTL: I don't think so, Gwen
2007.05.18 21:52:13 ThomasLev: it's probably easier to delete a blog than burn a book
2007.05.18 21:52:23 CaroleMc: you can often use the WayBackMachine to locate lost items on the web
2007.05.18 21:52:31 MizmercGst1: There's this theory of death, and life after that may be a good analogy...People live on as long as there is still osmeone alive who remember them.
2007.05.18 21:52:42 NinaTL: I had trouble deleting a sample blog I made in Blogger--until Google took over Blogger and then it was a snap!
2007.05.18 21:52:46 MizmercGst1: ANd maybe when you lose that blog, or that paper, you lose a part of yourself.
2007.05.18 21:53:01 JeffC hopes to live virtually forever in cyberland.
2007.05.18 21:53:05 NinaTL: not very long, then Alice, for most of us :-(
2007.05.18 21:53:21 DougSy: that comes back to the notion of public voice
2007.05.18 21:53:22 MizmercGst1: I lost my senior seminar paper, I'm sure it's on some harddisk in the house.
2007.05.18 21:53:27 NinaTL: Like Voldemort and his seven pieces of soul
2007.05.18 21:53:29 ThomasLev: Jeff will live forever in TI transcripts at least...
2007.05.18 21:53:38 NinaTL: Aarrgghh Alice!
2007.05.18 21:53:40 DougSy: and the fact that things (those blogged anyway) will persist on the web
2007.05.18 21:53:46 JeffC: true... i've logged about 50,000 hours here.
2007.05.18 21:53:52 MizmercGst1: Yeah NIna.
2007.05.18 21:54:02 MizmercGst1: It was a nice piece of research too!
2007.05.18 21:54:08 NinaTL: I'll bet it was.
2007.05.18 21:54:17 DougSy: Carole, funny you should mention
2007.05.18 21:54:18 NinaTL: You have my condolences
2007.05.18 21:54:38 DougSy: I've had to resort to wayback for some blogger stuff I didn't get moved before the "overhaul"
2007.05.18 21:54:41 CaroleMc: Yes, DougSy
2007.05.18 21:54:42 DougSy:*/
2007.05.18 21:54:51 ThomasLev: I go around telling people how putting a research paper on a blog is better than putting it on paper- for that very reason
2007.05.18 21:54:57 ThomasLev: if it's worth anything, save it!
2007.05.18 21:55:00 MizmercGst1: I found my first reflection blog on blogger (the anonymous one).
2007.05.18 21:55:18 ThomasLev: speaking of Wayback, I'm using it to dredge up work on obscure languages
2007.05.18 21:55:20 MizmercGst1: it was weird seeing some of that stuff.
2007.05.18 21:55:33 NinaTL: I'm beginning to learn how to write on the web--with lots of hyperlinks that go right to the source
2007.05.18 21:55:42 NinaTL: It's a different way of writing entirely
2007.05.18 21:55:44 ThomasLev: which is a byproduct of SIUC Linguistics housing a Journal of Pidgins & Creole languages
2007.05.18 21:55:50 MizmercGst1: Yes nina...
2007.05.18 21:56:04 MizmercGst1: I have a whole "conversational" style in blogging.
2007.05.18 21:56:04 ThomasLev: and me being one of the few around that know about the wayback archive
2007.05.18 21:56:08 JeffC: wow doug... you're a dedicated blogger.
2007.05.18 21:56:08 NinaTL: I didn't use to do that (hyperlinks)
2007.05.18 21:56:15 CaroleMc: i agree nina, there is a different 'voice' required' to engage the reader online
2007.05.18 21:56:21 MizmercGst1: I comment, and then do a post on my blog to the comment, with more annotations.
2007.05.18 21:56:27 MizmercGst1: so it's all circular.
2007.05.18 21:56:39 NinaTL: My next goal: start tagging
2007.05.18 21:56:40 MizmercGst1: it's structure is so different?
2007.05.18 21:56:46 ThomasLev: I've started tagging
2007.05.18 21:56:47 GwenC: I´m sorry Thomas, what is the wayback arquive?
2007.05.18 21:56:51 MizmercGst1: Yep.
2007.05.18 21:56:55 JeffC: just clicked randomly and am looking at Doug's blogs from 2003 at the wayback machine:
2007.05.18 21:56:56 JeffC:
2007.05.18 21:57:02 JeffC: thank you peabody and sherman.
2007.05.18 21:57:03 ThomasLev: the wayback archive stores old webpages
2007.05.18 21:57:12 ThomasLev: has a record of them even after they've been deleted
2007.05.18 21:57:18 NinaTL: Scary
2007.05.18 21:57:36 GwenC: Like a windows restore file?
2007.05.18 21:57:41 GwenC: Who houses that?
2007.05.18 21:57:42 NinaTL: I repeat, be aware of your potential audience when you upload
2007.05.18 21:57:45 ThomasLev: in our case, some old papers on languages such as St Lucien (Creole) were deleted
2007.05.18 21:57:46 JeffC: probably google
2007.05.18 21:57:50 JeffC: they save everything
2007.05.18 21:58:01 ThomasLev: and the wayback still had a record of them....
2007.05.18 21:58:03 NinaTL: It's like email: it's no more private than a postcard, i.e., NOT private
2007.05.18 21:58:07 DougSy: and Google
2007.05.18 21:58:11 CaroleMc: so any final advice for the bloggers Tom?
2007.05.18 21:58:12 MizmercGst1: oh I forgot, my latest creation, my blogfolio:
2007.05.18 21:58:18 MizmercGst1: It's less private than email.
2007.05.18 21:58:24 ThomasLev: advice?
2007.05.18 21:58:36 NinaTL: Email is not private. We just like to think it is.
2007.05.18 21:58:48 ThomasLev: carry on! let's make a bloggers' confederacy
2007.05.18 21:58:49 CaroleMc: how to become transparent; or how not to 'shoot yourself inthe foot'?
2007.05.18 21:59:05 MizmercGst1: well, email isn't private, but blogs are very public.
2007.05.18 21:59:10 ThomasLev: reread before you post
2007.05.18 21:59:17 NinaTL: Just don't say anything you don't want them to know.
2007.05.18 21:59:23 MizmercGst1: Admit when you're wrong.
2007.05.18 21:59:29 MizmercGst1: I've corrected myself.
2007.05.18 21:59:31 CaroleMc: never blog when angry
2007.05.18 21:59:32 NinaTL: them = your students, your parents, your boss...
2007.05.18 21:59:34 DougSy: don't make posts when you're "emotional" (especially if the emotion is anger) is a good place to start
2007.05.18 21:59:39 DougSy: beat me Carole
2007.05.18 21:59:44 MizmercGst1: Not emotional wrong, I don't do that.
2007.05.18 21:59:51 NinaTL: Edit your posts! (Is the old version saved in some archive?)
2007.05.18 21:59:52 CaroleMc: you and i are in synch today doug
2007.05.18 22:00:08 DougSy: indeed
2007.05.18 22:00:18 MizmercGst1: I re-read after I post. Catch the typos that way.
2007.05.18 22:00:22 ThomasLev: I don't know if the wayback does blogs too
2007.05.18 22:00:23 CaroleMc: update blogs ona regular basis
2007.05.18 22:00:28 MizmercGst1: I've been known to change stuff.
2007.05.18 22:00:34 NinaTL: Me too
2007.05.18 22:00:34 ThomasLev: it will have to be overloaded soon
2007.05.18 22:00:40 MizmercGst1: Anyone here read Miguel Guhlin?
2007.05.18 22:00:45 CaroleMc: ?
2007.05.18 22:00:46 NinaTL: OK guys, it's way past my bedtime
2007.05.18 22:00:51 MizmercGst1: night.
2007.05.18 22:00:58 NinaTL: Thanks, Tom, for a stimulating session.
2007.05.18 22:00:59 DougSy: yes, he does good work, Miguel does
2007.05.18 22:01:00 ThomasLev: Nina - thanks for coming!
2007.05.18 22:01:06 DougSy: yes thanks all, have to run too
2007.05.18 22:01:07 ThomasLev: I realize it's very late in MD
2007.05.18 22:01:08 NinaTL: Nothing else could have kept me awake until 1 a.m.
2007.05.18 22:01:12 MizmercGst1: He changed a post recently.
2007.05.18 22:01:17 CaroleMc: time for me to go - must do an entry in my Baranduda Blog before I sign off - interesting stuff here today
2007.05.18 22:01:19 CaroleMc: thanks Tom
2007.05.18 22:01:23 NinaTL: Perry, good luck with your session--I will catch it later from the recording.
2007.05.18 22:01:30 ThomasLev: Thanks Carole!
2007.05.18 22:01:38 MizmercGst1: And I thought, have I lost my mind? It didn't say that before, and he had changed it because of a complaint.
2007.05.18 22:01:47 NinaTL hugs all around and goes to bed.
2007.05.18 22:01:49 CaroleMc: cheers everyone - football is on TV now
2007.05.18 22:01:49 NinaTL left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 22:01:49 MizmercGst1: do we needd to leave.
2007.05.18 22:02:03 MizmercGst1: football? This time of year?
2007.05.18 22:02:08 CaroleMc left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 22:02:09 ThomasLev: I appreciate all the links- which I will read
2007.05.18 22:02:12 ThomasLev: football?
2007.05.18 22:02:17 MizmercGst1: Oh, aussie football
2007.05.18 22:02:20 DougSy: thanks Tom, great conversation
2007.05.18 22:02:22 DougSy: take care all
2007.05.18 22:02:23 GwenC: maybe soccer
2007.05.18 22:02:31 DougSy left the room (signed off).
2007.05.18 22:02:38 JimTGst5: Is it possible to listen to Talkcom session with OS X or Linux? I only see a Windows plugin.
2007.05.18 22:02:45 MizmercGst1: nope aussie rules football?
2007.05.18 22:03:01 ThomasLev: it's fall in Australia, I guess
2007.05.18 22:03:03 MizmercGst1: jeff, sounds like yours?
2007.05.18 22:03:21 ThomasLev: don't know, Jim
2007.05.18 22:03:23 MizmercGst1: Thomas email?
2007.05.18 22:03:30 MizmercGst1: is it on blog?
2007.05.18 22:03:30 ThomasLev:
2007.05.18 22:03:39 ThomasLev: should be
2007.05.18 22:03:42 JeffC: sounds like what Miz?
2007.05.18 22:04:23 JeffC: the talkcom question? hmmm... dunno... but if you're having trouble connecting with a mac, and there's no mac plugin... i'd suggest using a pc emulator if you have one.
2007.05.18 22:04:57 ThomasLev: Thanks again all & farewell!
2007.05.18 22:04:58 MizmercGst1: email sent
2007.05.18 22:05:20 ThomasLev left the room (signed off).

Friday, May 18, 2007

Welcome to WiAOC 2007!

How bloggers affect the academic ecosystem

Resources below deal with this topic. Here are four ideas I'm working on.

1. Blogging is part of an international trend toward transparency in general, which has brought pressure not only on academic institutions, but also on governments, businesses, and individuals. This phenomenon in general is guided by several principles: first, that transparency is valued by the public, which tends to reward agents of transparency, if only indirectly; second, that those who are more transparent put back-pressure on those who aren't, so that institutions or individuals that continue to hide information about their true activities, interests, or purposes eventually come under suspicion;

2. That the academic world can be described as a kind of ecosystem, with a power structure (food chain) of delicate interdependence; that researchers and professors, by establishing a direct line of communication with the public, cut out the middleman in the image and knowledge-delivery mechanism, in a way that will ultimately change that ecosystem, and will cause adjustments, if not outright attempts to control it, by universities and their committees that to some degree are defenders of the status quo. The university can be seen as constrained by its need to present itself as defender of academic freedom, and freedom of speech, yet the ambivalence of university administrations to what is seen as publicity-seeking is longstanding and precedes blogging.*

3. That the academic blogging community by its nature has become a loose confederacy of experts in different fields, with certain characteristics in common; that, because of their interaction with each other, they have more potential to be influenced by each other, and show the benefits of cross-disciplinary influences.

4. That blogging puts a public face on academics who have to some degree become accustomed to the protection of the university and its public image machine; that, by actually creating one's own interaction with the public, a blogger faces not only the adjustment of the university to the new decentralization caused by the personalization of media, but also the adjustment of the public, which, formerly used to directing criticism to the local newspaper or to the secretary of the Chancellor, now finds another representative of the university to open a dialogue with. This last possibility may be the most difficult for the blogger, and may in fact be the most threatening to the university, which may have gotten used to the fact that professors represent the university wherever they go, and whatever they do; but, in the past, this was not always recorded in print archives, forever.

I welcome your comments. I may tone down mine, if they don't sleep well.

Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Juan Cole, blogging and the academic

Juan Cole

Leibovitz, L. (2006, June 2). Middle East wars flare up at Yale. Jewish Week Online. Accessed 5-07.

Drezner, D. (2006, July 24). The case of Juan Cole. Daniel Drezner weblog. Accessed 5-07.

From 2006 Chronicle set of essays on blogging and academia

Chronicle Review (2006, July 28). Can blogging derail your career? Volume 52, Issue 47, p. B6, available Accessed 5-07.

Vaidhyanathan, S. (2006, July 28). The lessons of Juan Cole, from "Can blogging derail your career?" Chronicle Review, v52, i47, p.B6. Accessed 5-07.

There has never been a better time to be a public intellectual, and the Web is the big reason why...par. 2
The blogosphere is an excellent vehicle for the kind of intellectual ascendancy he has achieved. Dozens of important intellectual and academic blogs are being written for a wide public — and they are clearly being read, influencing the agenda, if not the content, of debate in the mainstream news media. -par. 4
But blogs expose us in some alarming ways.-par. 5
He used to be harmless. Now he is dangerous enough to try to stop. I'm thrilled to see the membrane between the academy and the public more permeable and transparent than ever. But such progress has its victims. -par. 5
But Cole's experience has shown us all just how tenuous academic freedom is when it comes to stuff that really matters. Thank goodness for tenure. Imagine what his critics would do at Michigan if they thought they could drive him away. If the academy is worth anything, it will continue to protect and reward him — and the next wave of public intellectuals. -par. 7

Drezner, D. (2006, July 28). The trouble with blogs. from "Can blogging derail your career?" Chronicle Review, v52, i47, p.B6. Accessed 5-07.

...a senior colleague once told me his secret to academic success: One bad article equals five great ones. His point was that the worst thing a scholar can do is to publish too much, as opposed to too little. Any substandard publication creates a black mark that is difficult to erase. -par. 1
The trouble with blogs is that they seem designed to provoke easy doubts. Blogs are an outlet for unexpurgated, unreviewed, and occasionally unprofessional musings. What makes them worth reading can also make them prone to error. Any honest scholar-blogger — myself included — could acknowledge a post or two that they would like to have back. At a place like Yale, one bad blog post can erase a lot of good will very quickly.-par. 4
Today's senior faculty members look at blogs the way a previous generation of academics looked at television — as a guilty, tawdry pleasure that should not be talked about in respectable circles. -par. 5
In a perfect world, blogs would play no role in hiring decisions. In the world in which we live, perhaps university committees should consciously factor in the positives — quality blogs allow scholars to link grand theory to real-world events, cultivate new ideas, and spark public debates — that come from scholar blogging. Apparently, it has become impossible for the negatives to be ignored. -par. 7

Althouse, A. (2006, July 28). Exposed in the blogosphere. from "Can blogging derail your career?" Chronicle Review, v52, i47, p.B6. Accessed 5-07.

Successful blog writing is sharp and clear. Controversial opinions will look quite stark. You lay it on the line, and you mean to startle readers and make your opponents mad. Academic writing is temperate and swathed in verbiage. It creates a comfortable environment for academics and wards off casual readers. In the blogosphere, you're newly exposed, and it's a rough arena, where you have far less control over what happens to you. That's part of what makes blogging empowering and, often, great fun. But it's a big risk, and of course, it risks your career. -par. 3

Cole, J. (2006, July 28). Juan R. I. Cole responds, from "Can blogging derail your career?" Chronicle Review, v52, i47, p.B6. Accessed 5-07.

Academics cannot easily be handed a pink slip, but they can be punished in other ways. The issues facing academics who dissent in public and in clear prose are the same today as they have always been. Maintaining a Web log now is no different in principle from writing a newsletter or publishing sharp opinion in popular magazines in the 1950s.

The difference today is that, because of Internet neutrality (which may not be long with us), an academic's voice is potentially as loud as or louder than those of corporate-backed pundits. Occasionally, my Web log has generated as many as 250,000 unique hits and over a million page views per month. Entries have also been sent in e-mail messages in numbers that cannot be traced. My Web log is, for the moment, certainly a mass medium. -pars. 2-3

The ability to speak directly and immediately to the public on matters of one's expertise, and to bring to bear all one's skills to affect the public debate, is new and breathtaking. -par. 4

Damrosch, D. (2007, Mar. 9). Trading up with Gilgamesh. Chronicle Review, v53, i27, p. B5. Online, Log-in required. Accessed 5-07.

The lesson I would draw from my Goldilocks experience is that it is neither necessary nor desirable to dumb our projects down when writing for a general audience. At the same time, we need to write quite differently when we want to reach beyond the comforting confines of our disciplinary coteries. It is good to have a clear and vivid style, but equally, we have to retrain ourselves to write for readers who don't already know what we're talking about, and who need to be shown why they should care about the things we know and love so well. The trade market can bear na impressive degree of scholarly substance if we can teach ourselves to reach out to a substantial nonscholarly clientele. -par. 11

Saturday, May 12, 2007

Drezner story + recent discussions

Deconick, A. (2007, Apr.). Tenure and Blogging. The Forbidden Gospels Blog. Should blogging count for tenure? Links to a discussion.

Davidson, C. (2007, April 7). Should blogs count for tenure? HASTAC.

Guardian Unlimited. (2004, Sept. 23). Inside the ivory tower. Registration required.

Goldberg, D. (2005, Mar. 5). Corporate vs. Academic blogging. ILLiGAL blogging.

Drezner story

Gershman, J. (2005, Oct. 11). Blogging prof fails to heed own advice. New York Sun.

Drezner, blogging

Tribble, I. (2005, July 8). Bloggers need not apply. Chronicle Careers, Chronicle of Higher Education.

How would my colleagues know that blogging has replaced cable TV ? Or that I now read fewer mystery novels? That blogging has actually increased the amount of time that I spend thinking about my professional life? I think having a (non-anonymous, public affairs-type) blog actually reflects a high level of engagement and professional seriousness. Lazy or uncreative people do not blog; they eat Cheetos and watch daytime TV. (I'm not calling all non-bloggers lazy; I'm just saying that blogging is probably one sign of high commitment.) If only more of our colleagues in political science would recognize that blogs can be a virtual academic conference, we might have a more lively discipline.

Dion, M. (2005, Oct. 12). Blogging and tenure. La Profesora Abstraida.

Lawrence, C. (2005, Oct. 9). Drezner denial discussion. Signifying Nothing. Links to posts about Drezner.

How blogging affects the academic ecosystem

Althouse, A. (2005, Oct. 5). "The very first words I wrote on this blog were: 'I shouldn't be doing this. I'll be going up for tenure soon.' Althouse blog. (About Drezner)

Williams, L. (2007, Apr. 12). How real life screws up blogging. Learning the lessons of Nixon. "Blogging is making a backup of my soul".

Keen, A. (2007, Apr. 12). An elitist code of conduct for bloggers. ZDNet, The Great Seduction.

"There are (at least) two issues for those considering the tenure of a blogger: whether the time should have been spent elsewhere (on scholarship, for example, especially if the quantity/quality of what is there is borderline sufficient)and separately, whether writing a "creative" or less than 100% serious blog detracts from the scholarly image of the person and of the institution. The person you mention was on the high end of the quantity/quality dimension and the department was not heavily enmeshed in blog reading or writing and so they hardly knew about, let alone read, the blog of the one sole person in a huge department who kept a blog.

At the law school it may be differently perceived as there are a number of bloggers and so it isn't just a rare instance of one person doing her or his own thing at the side. It's much more visible and therefore potentially more threatening.

(comment from Althouse post, above, by nina